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COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

I've spent a lot of time researching ways we can help protect ourselves and each other from COVID. I've listed some things I've found below.

I am a solutions orientated person. By that, I try to solve a problem instead of complaining.

Please, NO COMMENTS ABOUT WHY THINGS WON'T WORK. If I, or anyone else, is wrong about a stat or there is a different point of view from a credible resource, please post it here.

I just don't want to hear, "It's a good idea but it won't work because so and so won't do this and that. And please, no politics or politicians.

I also strongly believe that knowledge is power. You may never use any of this, but you know where to find them if/when needed.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

Face masks. This is a topic that really makes me frustrated and mad.

Eastern countries use them, Western don't.

I suggest doing your own research to see which countries wear masks and which don't and their situations concerning COVID.

My issue is the advice given by our medical experts about masks. The Western experts say they can be effective, and they are correct...but then they tell us the issues.
  • One issue is that people without training don't have a proper seal between their mask and face.

  • Another issues is that untrained people cross-contaminate their hands and face when removing the masks.

This is a simply matter of education.


What frustrates me is...

Many of those same experts I've seen say that face masks are effective, despite having a seal and cross-contamination issues, because they help prevent people from touching their faces with their hands.

Also every expert I've seen that says masks are ineffective (except for the reasons above) and commented on the following said that even though they don't protect you very well from being infected THEY DO PROTECT OTHERS FROM BEING INFECTED BY YOU.

Why I'm mad. Let me repeat. Masks prevent you from infecting someone else. The result is the same exact thing. It cuts transmission. A lot.

Don't take my word. Please research this for yourself.

Summary:
  • Masks don't work to protect you when they aren't sealed properly and from cross-contamination with hands.

  • They do work because they protect you from touching your nose and mouth with your hands.

  • They do work from protecting others from you if you're infected.



RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

Temperature -

Take your temp before going out. If it's over 100F don't go. While a fever does not mean you have COVID and if you don't have a fever it doesn't mean you don't have it, a fever is a pretty good indicator.

Assuming my info about masks above is correct, it seems logical to assume that in public using a mask in public and checking for fever along with excellent hygiene, will greatly decrease the spread of COVID.

Fever Map

Kinsa sells USB thermometers and tracks the temperature of 10 millions (?) Americans for "atypical illness" (fevers that don't seem to fit).

They have been very accurate in the past with predicting where the flu will pop up, much faster and better than the CDC, and it updates in real time. This doesn't mean they can predict were COVID will appear, but I think they should be considered the most accurate until there's evidence they're not.

https://healthweather.us


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

What Are The Best Materials for Making DIY Masks?

This article is the best I've found for telling us how effective different household materials are for creating DIY masks for protecting against viruses including those about the same size ad COVID. The research was done by Cambridge U.

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus

One important note is that they all (except scarves) blocked at least 50% of the virus. That means they DOUBLE (or more) the chances of NOT getting COVID compared to not wearing a mask, assuming they are put on correctly or any cross contamination with hands.

When talking about viral/exponential growth, this reduction is very significant. And these numbers don't include the person wearing the mask from spreading a virus to others.

Vacuum cleaner bags can be pretty effective. However, they aren't easy to breath through. And the report doesn't include coffee filters or paper towels.

More from Smartfilters:
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-hepa-filters-capture-nanoparticles/

This article explains why nano-particles (really small like COVID) actually are easier to catch in a filter than larger particles. Hint: They don't fly in straight lines.

Quote:Just how small is 0.3 microns compared to viruses? The coronavirus measures approximately 0.1 microns in diameter, so 3 times smaller than measured in our test. However, 0.3 microns is an important size to test, because 0.3 micron particles are the most difficult to capture.

The crazy reality is that particles smaller than 0.3 microns are actually easier to capture. Don’t believe us; believe the data. Here’s the science behind it

But if we zoom down to the really small particles—like nanoparticles—things start getting weird. Nanoparticles are so small that they bounce around like a pinball when they hit gas molecules. (Scientists call this Brownian Motion.) That means they fly in random zigzag patterns.



RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

Coffee Filters Eyed in Mask Shortage
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/news/2020/03/21/at-brooklyn-health-facility--coffee-filters-eyed-in-mask-shortage

Quote:The document was written by Dan Bersak, an engineer who said that he wrote it up as a personal favor for a close friend involved in emergency planning for the state.

“If it was me, and I had nothing else, I would absolutely wear it,” Bersak said in an interview, adding that the mask isn’t approved by a regulatory agency but rather designed “using my gut experience -- my gut instinct as an engineer.”

“That said I would prefer a N95 (mask) for sure. If I couldn’t get a real surgical mask I would get that. This is neither of these things.”



How to make a homemade face mask with coffee filters

This page has a video showing how to make a facemask using coffee filters based on the article just above:
https://www.wwlp.com/news/health/coronavirus/web-extra-how-to-make-a-homemade-face-mask/


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Jeffery - 03-22-2020

Mail. I may be too cautious, but I think there is a possibility that the mailman may deliver infected mail which may infect us. I believe the virus can stay alive up to 4 hours on cardboard.

For the past two days I was at my mailbox when the mail was delivered by the mailman. On the first day the mailman was wearing surgical gloves and on the second he was NOT wearing gloves. I asked him why he was NOT wearing gloves as I was spraying the mail with the H2O2 recipe.

He said he forgot and quickly put a pair of gloves on. I told him that the gloves were meant to protect both him and us meaning the public from the virus. He nodded and politely asked me not to say anything.

This morning we went grocery shopping and arrived at Walmart 40 minutes after they opened. There about 120 people ahead of us standing in line to go inside. There were two security guards controlling the line. They were admitting 10 people at a time every 2 minutes.

I noticed people coming out of the store were placing their empty buggies in the buggy place (you know) and some people just arriving were taking the buggies out of the buggy place and getting in line. My thought was maybe they might be out of buggies inside the store. So I went to get a buggy and sprayed it with the H2O2 solution. As I was spraying it a security guard stopped me and asked me what I was doing. Explained it to him. He radioed somebody, got the word, and told me thank you as he walked away.

At the cash register I sprayed the solution on the groceries after the clerk touched them. I bagged them. The clerk just looked at and rolled her eyes.

Again, I may be too cautious and my wife said as much, but I told her it was a good thing that she didn't marry me for my brains. lol.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - cosmic77 - 03-22-2020

Prevention is better than cure... Clicked the coffee link from Kurt - Had pop up denying me entry to site Smile
"Our European visitors are important to us. This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws." So just laughed out loud...We are even banned from reading what could help us Smile Smile

Seriously though thank you for this thread, we are already in isolation but people think its all a joke. I did some calculations as I read some stuff from Peak Prosperity. I do hope he is wrong on those figures but it seems exponential growth has no master. (At least in an Earthly way, "as for me & my House my trust is in the Lord Almighty")


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 04:18 PM)cosmic77 Wrote: Prevention is better than cure... Clicked the coffee link from Kurt - Had pop up denying me entry to site Smile
"Our European visitors are important to us. This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws." So just laughed out loud...We are even banned from reading what could help us Smile Smile

Seriously though thank you for this thread, we are already in isolation but people think its all a joke. I did some calculations as I read some stuff from Peak Prosperity. I do hope he is wrong on those figures but it seems exponential growth has no master. (At least in an Earthly way, "as for me & my House my trust is in the Lord Almighty")

Which link? I'll post the relevant info here.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 02:09 PM)Jeffery Wrote: Mail. I may be too cautious, but I think there is a possibility that the mailman may deliver infected mail which may infect us. I believe the virus can stay alive up to 4 hours on cardboard.

For the past two days I was at my mailbox when the mail was delivered by the mailman. On the first day the mailman was wearing surgical gloves and on the second he was NOT wearing gloves. I asked him why  he was NOT wearing gloves as I was spraying the mail with the H2O2 recipe.

He said he forgot and quickly put a pair of gloves on. I told him that the gloves were meant to protect both him and us meaning the public from the virus. He nodded and politely asked me not to say anything.

This morning we went grocery shopping and arrived at Walmart 40 minutes after they opened. There about 120 people ahead of us standing in line to go inside. There were two security guards controlling the line. They were admitting 10 people at a time every 2 minutes.

I noticed people coming out of the store were placing their empty buggies in the buggy place (you know) and some people just arriving were taking the buggies out of the buggy place and getting in line. My thought was maybe they might be out of buggies inside the store. So I went to get a buggy and sprayed it with the H2O2 solution. As I was spraying it a security guard stopped me and asked me what I was doing. Explained it to him. He radioed somebody, got the word, and told me thank you as he walked away.

At the cash register I sprayed the solution on the groceries after the clerk touched them. I bagged them. The clerk just looked at and rolled her eyes.

Again, I may be too cautious and my wife said as much, but I told her it was a good thing that she didn't marry me for my brains. lol.

I sprayed mine with H2O2 when I got home.

Risk vs Gain

Risk = 20 cents worth H2O2. A little public embarrassment.

Gain = Potentially saving lives and health. Safe with no environmental risk since H2O2 breaks down into H2O and oxegen.

I say keep spraying.

BTW...did the postman wash his hands before touching the gloves and after taking them off?


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-22-2020

I asked a (Aussie) nurse friend how they are trained about putting on and taking off masks to avoid cross contamination. She said they are taught to wash hands:

Before putting a mask on

Before taking a mask off

After taking a mask off


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - cosmic77 - 03-22-2020

Thanks Kurt - Its OK I used a VPN to see behind it (HMA)


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Jeffery - 03-22-2020

(03-22-2020, 07:09 PM)Kurt Wrote: [quote pid='722' dateline='1584886177']
<snip>

I sprayed mine with H2O2 when I got home.

Risk vs Gain

Risk = 20 cents worth H2O2. A little public embarrassment.

Gain = Potentially saving lives and health. Safe with no environmental risk since H2O2 breaks down into H2O and oxegen.

I say keep spraying.

BTW...did the postman wash his hands before touching the gloves and after taking them off?
[/quote]
No, but I was out there today and somebody new took his place and he had gloves and a mask. I asked if the other mailman was okay and he said today is his day off.

BTW, my wife said she noticed two guys outside Walmart spraying the buggies before they were pushed inside the store. And I noticed a big "We are hiring" sign outside the entrance. Also, there were signs in every isle that said "One item per customer." When we were standing in line to pay a mom with three kids and two cases of water asked my wife if she would buy a case of water for her (cash in hand). I put the water on my buggy and told he to put her money away. Outside the store I placed the water in her buggy and she almost cried.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - cosmic77 - 03-23-2020

Jeffrey - Thats so wonderful to help her... Its 5.30am right now & you just started my day off just right. Lets all take this example.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-23-2020

Some random thoughts:

It seems COVID is sensitive to heat. Not "summer" heat but temps of 140-170 f was the range I found. Boiling water is 212 f at sea level. I live 8500 above sea level it it boils at about 190 up here. Microwaves are not recommended because they don't heat evenly and pockets of virus may survive. If you ever have to wear a mask (see above) you may want to boil it if the material allows it instead of using chemicals since you'll be breathing through it.

Social distancing - Why not go to 24 hours for places like grocery stores so people are more spread out over time with dedicated time time slots based on some factor? Distance shouldn't only measured in feet, it should also be measured in time. Only allow curbside pickup so workers can stay safer and only they need to wear protective equipment. We have drive-by testing and we need drive-by grocery pickup. Assist people that may not have the ability to order online.

I can't remember where, but one town is having people put up green pieces of paper in the windows of their homes. If it changes to red they need help of some kind.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Jeffery - 03-23-2020

Our local Walmart has scheduled shopping for seniors only on Tuesdays. The Walmart used to be open 24/7 before the virus and now it is open to the public 12 hours a day. The remaining 12 hours are reserved for stocking and because of a lack of employees to open 24/7.

Walmart increased their on-hand inventory of electric scooters for the handicapped and seniors.

Customers can go online, pay for groceries and pickup or have them delivered. The Walmart guy said that worked well before the virus, except now there are not enough employees to do the in-store bundling of the groceries and not enough employees to staff the pickup area.

Oh, some of my info is what was put out at a City Hall meeting. Owed to the virus I won't be attending anymore meetings. All online in the future.

I noticed a few families that usually have only one buggy now have two or more, so they can get around the one like-item per customer.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-23-2020

(03-23-2020, 11:48 AM)Jeffery Wrote: Our local Walmart has scheduled shopping for seniors only on Tuesdays. The Walmart used to be open 24/7 before the virus and now it is open to the public 12 hours a day. The remaining 12 hours are reserved for stocking and because of a lack of employees to open 24/7.

Walmart increased their on-hand inventory of electric scooters for the handicapped and seniors.

Customers can go online, pay for groceries and pickup or have them delivered. The Walmart guy said that worked well before the virus, except now there are not enough employees to do the in-store bundling of the groceries and not enough employees to staff the pickup area.

Oh, some of my info is what was put out at a City Hall meeting. Owed to the virus I won't be attending anymore meetings. All online in the future.

I noticed a few families that usually have only one buggy now have two or more, so they can get around the one like-item per customer.

My nearest Walmart is a one hour drive away. And all Walmarts and essential businesses should still be open 24 hours. If all supplies were delivered curbside, no one would have to go inside except the employees making everyone safer. They can still stock whenever they want...but it's a waste of time. Just fill orders directly from stock. The displays don't have to look pretty or the shelves be full. That's a lot of wasted people power.

Rotate the scheduling. For example, by first letter of license plate or last name or drivers license. People don't have to go to work. They can set an alarm and go get their groceries between 2 and 5 am and then go back to bed. If they can't do that, wait a day or two and they can go between 9 am and noon.

These are just examples and need more thought, but the concept is sound. Supplies are not they only thing that may be considered essential. So are the workers who make it possible to get the essential supplies.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-30-2020

This article explains why we should all be wearing masks when in public:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/28/masks-all-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1nymLVgoJap6srPdMJHJnsBl8Dvj_SOWChQzqqffjVB2ZyAEngb83-VW8

An important part of this articles is this:
Quote:"My data-focused research institute, fast.ai, has found 34 scientific papers indicating basic masks can be effective in reducing virus transmission in public — and not a single paper that shows clear evidence that they cannot."
 
Here's a page that lists his resources:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/edit?fbclid=IwAR3zYwpOOSx7zSezy-pKte22SHEnvCfMuSWOs-V4LeZYUHrFe6kVPmLvbmI#heading=h.88sn77t4huar

This video shows how to make a face mask using a vacuum cleaner hepa filter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6d3twpHwis


Previously I did some research into whether hepa filters would work. Even though COVID is technically smaller that the hepa filters, it seems COVID is a "nano particle" which means it doesn't "fly" smoothly and bounces around. https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-hepa-filters-capture-nanoparticles

Here's how to create a mask using a tee shirt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJaVBt8q6g8

When creating a mask, the nose bridge is essential and I'd add it to the tee shirt idea above. I've seen paper clips, pipe cleaners and even foil folded a few times taped to the masks so they will grip the brodge of your nose better.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 03-30-2020

I thought I posted this before...I'd rather post it twice if than not at all.

This is a study from Cambridge U showing which common household materials are best for making face masks. They chose a cotton blend as best because of the breathability.What Are The Best Materials for Making DIY Masks?
[Image: Mask-Materials-Effectiveness-0.02-Micron...68x592.jpg]


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-01-2020

I did a little experiment with dust masks. I put one on my face "normally" and breathed with my glasses on. My glasses fogged up, indicating a leaky seal around my nose.

I then pinched the little metal strip on the mask around my nose and tested again. This helped a lot, but there was still a little fog on my glasses.

Then I rolled up a 2-3 inch piece of duct tape like a straw with the sticky side out and added it to the mask where the metal tab did and pressed the metal strip and duct tape. That was a really good seal.

Since sealing and hygiene/cross-contamination seem to be the biggest issues with masks I suggest doing a few experiments yourself and consider duct tape for sealing any leaks. Duct tape is called "duct tape" because it was made to seal air ducts air tight. Grab a small mirror and with a mask on hold the mirror around the mask to check for leaks and seal any with some duct tape.

I'm not sure about the material, but a big difference between dust masks you get at the hardware store and surgical masks in that dust masks only have one elastic strap and surgical masks have two. I think it's probably a good idea to check out the differences and to add another strap to better duplicate surgical masks.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-03-2020

I just saw this and it backs up my experiment above to a degree:

[Image: 02d9cc47.gif?fbclid=IwAR1EDGgEToMLDIFedY...qQxDQSISrk]


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-03-2020

This is really important. Please watch and share.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKfvETXDvg

I protect you. You protect me.

#masks4all


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-03-2020

https://www.facebook.com/LeonBriePersonal/videos/10157610336083171/


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-04-2020

Don't think masks are effective? Read the facts:
https://www.maskssavelives.org/

[Image: Adjustments.plist.jpg]


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - 10x - 04-04-2020

(Yesterday, 12:40 AM)Kurt Wrote: Don't think masks are effective? Read the facts:
https://www.maskssavelives.org/

[Image: Adjustments.plist.jpg]

I am a proponent of wearing masks and have been ever since I came down with severe health issues involving my lungs a couple of years ago. 

I have argued with people, almost lost friendships, worried to no end, etc. to get masks. I wear them whenever I go out. I stand in line every week to buy our family's allotment. 

However, the chart is skewed. Mainland China, like other Asian countries, is a strong mask wearing culture. This is a huge flaw in what is a well intentioned message.


RE: COVID - How to protect ourselves - Kurt - 04-04-2020

(Yesterday, 07:59 AM)10x Wrote:
(Yesterday, 12:40 AM)Kurt Wrote: Don't think masks are effective? Read the facts:
https://www.maskssavelives.org/

[Image: Adjustments.plist.jpg]





I am a proponent of wearing masks and have been ever since I came down with severe health issues involving my lungs a couple of years ago. 

I have argued with people, almost lost friendships, worried to no end, etc. to get masks. I wear them whenever I go out. I stand in line every week to buy our family's allotment. 

However, the chart is skewed. Mainland China, like other Asian countries, is a strong mask wearing culture. This is a huge flaw in what is a well intentioned message.




Because of not being a trusted source of accurate info, I take China out of any reported statistical analysis. Even if we do consider China as an outlier and include their numbers in the mask to non-mask comparison, the averages of the mask wearing countries would still be much lower than the other countries. It's undeniable that Asian countries have down a better job at containing COVID than Western countries.

And the chart is supported by all the other stats I've posted above concerning masks and isn't the only evidence presented. If masks help, then we should assume that countries where everyone wears them should have lower COVID numbers than countries that don't.

The chart supports this theory, especially considering the chart isn't drawn to scale and the low numbers are MUCH lower when compared to the higher numbers than the chart seems to show. Redraw the map to scale and the chart would be even more dramatic. Compare Italy and Japan. Italy reported 50X the number of cases Japan has. The chart doesn't show that very well.

While China is in the "non mask" group, there are ZERO non-mask countries in the lower numbers of COVID. Don't just look at China, but why are there NO non-mask wearing countries in the counties with lower case numbers?